My thoughts on the current state of the MKW Community

Tea

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#61
ok boomer



KD posting a picture of his dead cat in the WL server, thoughts?

Should he be punished for this? If you think the answer is no, I think everyone should also then have the right to post pictures of KD's dead cat on this thread.

I think some form of punishment needs to happen, if Jos gets banned for posting a picture of poo in a server not at all related to MKBoards, KD should get an even harsher ban, considering he posted (in my opinion) way worse content in a server directly tied to MKBoards.

Treat everyone equally. KD getting lighter treatment because of his position would be clear corruption among the staff.


EDIT:

Been watching KD's victim card twitch vod (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/526875290) for a while now, At around 1h8m he makes it very clear that he will no longer interact with the community, but will still be around to make staff decisions. This, in my opinion is completely unacceptable, and he does not deserve to be a part of the staff if he will truly act like this, and isn't just talking shit because he's feeling bad :(

For a figurehead of the community to deliberately stop interacting with the community shows how he tends to only care for the people he likes. Not a good trait for someone in a position like KD. I think he needs to change his outlook on this, or be removed from his position, now that it's still possible.

I'm sorry that your cat died, but it does not excuse this kind of elitist behavior.
Staff is already looking into it (Mod team only)
 

Savannah

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#62
still wondering why MKB staff continue to play the role as MKWii community police. the real reason why the MKWii community will die is because MKBoards is the competitive hub with tournaments and a registry database, and MKBoards as a website has been inactive and dead is because the staff is focusing on the wrong things.

MKB staff should not concern themselves with happenings outside of their website and social platforms. This is the very thing that's making everyone angry and unsatisfied with how the community's running. No sense of direction and future from the people at the top, but rather a hope of creating utopia where anyone with behavior they view as unacceptable immediately changes it or is shunned from the community.

To put it simply, banning people on MKBoards for their misdemeanors needs to stop. An MKB ban means that you're banned from all competitions.. having that type of power is huge, and we need to treat that power with more care. Everyone's opinion on what type of behavior is okay, isn't okay, and what is bannable varies too much. That's why you receive crowds of angry and unsatisfied people, that's why we see these types of threads more often than they should happen. I'm almost 100% sure that you wouldn't receive backlash and riots like these if you treated the misdemeanors with a server ban or mute instead of banning them from all competitions (aka MKBoards ban).

In my view, this is what should've happened.
- Viktor: no MKB site ban, instead a ban in community servers if the moderators and admins of said servers find it justified. (if the OP's description is correct of the situation)
- Jos: for posting a picture of poop, no MKB site ban, but instead a ban in community servers as mods and admins justify.
- Stunky, Daylon, etc.: MKB site ban, immediate ban in all community servers for illegal activities and to protect the community.

A new philosophy in the MKB staff and the other staff groups is extremely necessary right now.
- The purpose for any MKB bans that deal with off-site occurrences should be to protect the community - not to shun someone's bad behavior.
- Let Discord admins and moderators decide what to do with occurrences that happen in their servers.

If these changes were to happen, MKB staff would no longer have to focus on perfecting their community and washing out people with bad behavior. Instead, MKB staff could focus on their website, and community server moderators can continue keeping their servers under control. There's no nice way to put it, this website's been inactive and dead for a long time. There are no current PR efforts. People were on winter break, you had TK's tweet blow up, but we didn't see any tournaments popping up with postings on Twitter, Reddit, etc. - you missed an opportunity to get some traffic on this website and have more AdSense hits to pay off the yearly bill for the website. Now, you have Troy and James Charles potentially collaborating, what will you do now?

The choices are clear.
1) You continue to worry about people's feelings being hurt, receive backlash because everyone's opinion on unacceptable behavior differs, continue to have to deal with the backlash and threads like these, continue to neglect the actual website itself, and eventually end up with no AdSense payouts to pay off the site.
2) You take out the rules that deal with off-site misdemeanors, instead deal with extreme harassment cases and illegal activities (add-in a rule where you report this to Discord as well) that could pose a threat to the community's protection, and instead leave it to server moderators where these misdemeanors happen to take care of them. You now have more time to tend to your website instead of worrying about misdemeanors.

Also, demote KD. The decision he made to post that picture in a community server was one from his unstable mind, but if you continue to have him as admin, the sense of authority will diminish.

I’ve lost a lot of interest in the community for several reasons, and some of them are certain situations that happened recently. But it’s irritating to stand by and watch the community operate incorrectly. If you have questions or want me to clarify anything I’ve said, I will do
 
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#63
A new philosophy in the MKB staff and the other staff groups is extremely necessary right now.
- The purpose for any MKB bans that deal with off-site occurrences should be to protect the community - not to shun someone's bad behavior.
- Let Discord admins and moderators decide what to do with occurrences that happen in their servers.
You're right, let's allow Stunky/Daylon back into Lounge but make it so they can't participate, but can still read chat/DM whoever they want. What's the worst that can happen, right? Not like they'd ever repeat themselves...

Keep in mind, that was the decision by a Lounge admin...the same thing you yourself opposed a few months ago.

If they cannot make even obvious major safety decisions, how can it be expected for them to make logical smaller decisions?

Don't get me wrong, I do disagree with policing...but by the same token, I get why it has to be done.

Look at it this way, it's like America being labeled the policemen of the world. Because let's face it, if America doesn't do it, nobody else will. Sad to say, I think the same applies here. Shit won't get done by the admins/mods of Discord servers. You yourself have witnessed it.

:Edit:
And to be clear, I'm not making jabs at you or Lounge staff. I'm using it as an example.
 

Dermo

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#65
The deterioration of wl is killing the competitive community with formats that no one wants, replace KD with tea, get rid of the useless council members and replace them with motivated players who want to see the competitive community grow, enough of this mkps is coming shite. Until it actually works all we have to deal with is figure heads acting like mental asylum patients and council members who cant take criticism and deal out passive aggressive comments like nothing I've ever seen before
 

Savannah

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#66
You're right, let's allow Stunky/Daylon back into Lounge but make it so they can't participate, but can still read chat/DM whoever they want. What's the worst that can happen, right? Not like they'd ever repeat themselves...

Keep in mind, that was the decision by a Lounge admin...the same thing you yourself opposed a few months ago.

If they cannot make even obvious major safety decisions, how can it be expected for them to make logical smaller decisions?

In my view, this is what should've happened.
- Viktor: no MKB site ban, instead a ban in community servers if the moderators and admins of said servers find it justified. (if the OP's description is correct of the situation)
- Jos: for posting a picture of poop, no MKB site ban, but instead a ban in community servers as mods and admins justify.
- Stunky, Daylon, etc.: MKB site ban, immediate ban in all community servers for illegal activities and to protect the community.
I think you missed a vital part of my post. I believe all community servers should come to a mutual understanding of how we can protect our community, not to mention the Discord rules and policies (allowing Stunky and Daylon access to lounge was reviewable conduct by discord policy)
 
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#67
ok boomer
KD posting a picture of his dead cat in the WL server, thoughts?

Should he be punished for this? If you think the answer is no, I think everyone should also then have the right to post pictures of KD's dead cat on this thread.
Trust me, Myself out of all people was very disappointed to see that twitter post. As someone who has known KD since 2012, I was deeply upset that he chose that path. And he admitted he shouldnt have done it and it was a decision that will cost him yes. He was thinking with his feelings, not his general mind.
He deleted it, so I personally believe any posts on any sites, discord, twitter, here, etc should delete any posts with the picture. Or at the very least, blur it? Its just disrespectful to keep posting it. In respect to the deceased fur baby, lets not do this.
I do not disagree that he should be punished for his actions, but so should witch hunting.
Moderators / admins of any type are human beings and make mistakes. Yes maybe he shouldnt be admin anymore, but what was going on towards him was a bit, offputting.
Like the pedophilia accusations, where do you even come up with this stuff. Is it because Dermo simply doesn't like the dude, I think a lot of people need to grow up. I understood shit like this going on when we were all 13-16 but most of us are 20+ now. Time for this baby stuff to end.
This is basically why I rejected the idea of coming back here. KD had asked me before if I would ever like to moderate again. The toxicity stressed me out too much so I stepped down on my own accord as I was tired of being yelled at for things out of my control. It felt like I was working retail at the front desk but I wasnt being paid for it. I think the mod team deserves more credit than they deserve. You can't deny that KD, despite all the shit that has been thrown at him, does care about the community and acted impulsively. He should make a formal apology but he is not the only one who is in the wrong here.
I simply think people should be more grateful that the mods waste so much of their time on
such a toxic community that doesnt even give them a simple thank you for doing all that they do. Its not easy running a forum. Especially for a game thats been slowly dying out.
KD, I love you to bits. But yes, you fucked up and need to acknowledge that. And I also think there needs to be a community discussion. but never the less, It will be easier if we can all have a conversation without people acting like they are 10. Thanks.
 
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Thread Starter #68
Trust me, Myself out of all people was very disappointed to see that twitter post. As someone who has known KD since 2012, I was deeply upset that he chose that path. And he admitted he shouldnt have done it and it was a decision that will cost him yes. He was thinking with his feelings, not his general mind.
He deleted it, so I personally believe any posts on any sites, discord, twitter, here, etc should delete any posts with the picture. Or at the very least, blur it? Its just disrespectful to keep posting it. In respect to the deceased fur baby, lets not do this.
I do not disagree that he should be punished for his actions, but so should witch hunting.
Going by the vod, he seemed to very much think that people were overreacting about the picture. He did mention that it was a mistake, but didn't seem to have any sense of shame about it, nor did he mention that he would deserve to be punished for it.

I'm sure he will eventually understand the weight of the situation, and hope that after some time being banned he will try his best to do better.

Moderators / admins of any type are human beings and make mistakes. Yes maybe he shouldnt be admin anymore, but what was going on towards him was a bit, offputting.
Like the pedophilia accusations, where do you even come up with this stuff. Is it because Dermo simply doesn't like the dude, I think a lot of people need to grow up. I understood shit like this going on when we were all 13-16 but most of us are 20+ now. Time for this baby stuff to end.
This is basically why I rejected the idea of coming back here. KD had asked me before if I would ever like to moderate again. The toxicity stressed me out too much so I stepped down on my own accord as I was tired of being yelled at for things out of my control. It felt like I was working retail at the front desk but I wasnt being paid for it. I think the mod team deserves more credit than they deserve. You can't deny that KD, despite all the shit that has been thrown at him, does care about the community and acted impulsively. He should make a formal apology but he is not the only one who is in the wrong here.
Yeah, as much as I agree with Dermo on certain things, I think the pedophilia allegations are not appropriate without evidence. Serious stuff like this should be presented with evidence. KD mentioning contacting the discord mods about Dermo slandering him was a pretty petty way to intimidate him, but I think all this shit show would have been avoided had Dermo handled the thing a bit better.

I simply think people should be more grateful that the mods waste so much of their time on
such a toxic community that doesnt even give them a simple thank you for doing all that they do. Its not easy running a forum. Especially for a game thats been slowly dying out.
KD, I love you to bits. But yes, you fucked up and need to acknowledge that. And I also think there needs to be a community discussion. but never the less, It will be easier if we can all have a conversation without people acting like they are 10. Thanks.
This^

Mods deserve all our respect. KD has done a lot for the community, and nobody can really deny that. However, he needs take responsibility for his actions, just like anyone else. I think he's a good guy, just not the best personality to lead the wider community.

EDIT: After a talk with KD, it seems that he has decided to take a backseat in executive decisions and focus on the background work for the community, and others will handle the communication and actual decisions. I think this isn't bad, as it will focus on people's strengths.


I don't have further problem with this arrangement (assuming it's followed), the problem that I tried to express was with the former plan for the structuring of the council, with KD leading the decisions. This seems to have been changed, and I think that's best for everyone.

(Also Jos and Jack apparently didn't end up getting banned after all soooo... Yeah big oops, ignore everything that I related to that.)
 
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#69
Going by the vod, he seemed to very much think that people were overreacting about the picture. He did mention that it was a mistake, but didn't seem to have any sense of shame about it, nor did he mention that he would deserve to be punished for it.
He's angry and definitely not thinking clearly, he is realizing that yes, it was too far.

Yeah, as much as I agree with Dermo on certain things, I think the pedophilia allegations are not appropriate without evidence. Serious stuff like this should be presented with evidence. KD mentioning contacting legal authorities about Dermo slandering him was a pretty petty way to intimidate him, but I think all this shit show would have been avoided had Dermo handled the thing a bit better.
Pedophilia is a serious accusation and should never be claimed without evidence. Definitely was not appropriate and unless he has evidence, Dermo should also apologize for slandering his name.

Mods deserve all our respect. KD has done a lot for the community, and nobody can really deny that. However, he needs take responsibility for his actions, just like anyone else. I think he's a good guy, just not the best personality to lead the wider community.
thank you for being respectful and mature about the situation. And I hope everyone else can learn from this simple conversation on how to talk to people...lol.
 
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#70
I think you missed a vital part of my post. I believe all community servers should come to a mutual understanding of how we can protect our community, not to mention the Discord rules and policies (allowing Stunky and Daylon access to lounge was reviewable conduct by discord policy)
No, I saw it, but I was pointing out the flaws in that I don't see everyone agreeing, even on the most basic of rules. Keep in mind, there were others against their removal and were like "who cares man??" Maybe you didn't see those posts in Lounge, but I definitely did. It was actually kinda staggering how many people just didn't care. In a perfect world, I'd completely agree with you...however, this community has proven itself time and time again to be unable to handle situations.
 

Savannah

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#71
No, I saw it, but I was pointing out the flaws in that I don't see everyone agreeing, even on the most basic of rules. Keep in mind, there were others against their removal and were like "who cares man??" Maybe you didn't see those posts in Lounge, but I definitely did. It was actually kinda staggering how many people just didn't care. In a perfect world, I'd completely agree with you...however, this community has proven itself time and time again to be unable to handle situations.
Well, if it’s lounge we’re worried about not being able to properly handle cases, let’s ask one of the admins about their current perspectives and rules.
@Chéron if we experienced another case like Stunky and Daylon, what would lounge’s course of action be? Also, can you tell us how lounge currently handles misdemeanors? Thank you!
 
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#72
"KD posting a picture of his dead cat in the WL server, thoughts?
Should he be punished for this? If you think the answer is no, I think everyone should also then have the right to post pictures of KD's dead cat on this thread. I think some form of punishment needs to happen, if Jos gets banned for posting a picture of poo in a server not at all related to MKBoards, KD should get an even harsher ban, considering he posted (in my opinion) way worse content in a server directly tied to MKBoards.

Treat everyone equally. KD getting lighter treatment because of his position would be clear corruption among the staff
."

(...)"EDIT: Been watching KD's victim card twitch vod (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/526875290) for a while now, At around 1h8m he makes it very clear that he will no longer interact with the community, but will still be around to make staff decisions. This, in my opinion is completely unacceptable, and he does not deserve to be a part of the staff if he will truly act like this, and isn't just talking shit because he's feeling bad :(

For a figurehead of the community to deliberately stop interacting with the community shows how he tends to only care for the people he likes. Not a good trait for someone in a position like KD. I think he needs to change his outlook on this, or be removed from his position, now that it's still possible.

I'm sorry that your cat died, but it does not excuse this kind of elitist behavior.
"
I think the best move for KD is to voluntarily step down from his position.
 

Chéron

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#74
@Chéron if we experienced another case like Stunky and Daylon, what would lounge’s course of action be? Also, can you tell us how lounge currently handles misdemeanors? Thank you!
Ugh, forgive me for saying this but getting dragged into one of these kind of discussions again was not what I want to spend my holiday time on. Sure, I'm not against the problem being addressed and I guess I should've expected someone to want a response from atleast one of us at some point, so here goes.

I'm sure the obvious answer you want is; "Well, we will give them the same treatment of course!" and I also hope it keeps that tone. HOWEVER (and this is just personal), I have never been interested in studying law and probably never will be. And its certainly not what I expected, or the rest of the OG part of the staff team for that matter, to be discussing frequently back when we first started helping Vito run the lounge about 2 years ago now. I am personally not gonna study small details of the law of several different countries in these cases. So in terms of "misdemeanors", I dont find it completely necessary to only ban people when we have concrete proof of something strictly illegal happening. If we have enough evidence to see that something disgusting is occuring, then I wouldnt feel bad about clicking the red "BAN" button. But thats only if it stood to me.

You may know that there was disagreement in Lounge staff at one point, but thats mostly settled now. But even still, I'll probably always lean more towards being more strict when something is obvious enough etc.

In regards to how it's currently being handled, staff, as a whole, is a bit cautious acting without concrete proof that someone broke a certain law within a certain country and I guess it's hard for me to blame them even though my philosophy will never be that cautious when it comes to subjects like these.

Im sure that there is more to this thread than just this, but this is what I was asked about. If anyone, for god knows what reason, wants my take on something else then ask specifically, because im sure as hell not gonna read this entire thread in order to make a broad statement without being asked.

One last thing; I already said I dont have anything against these problems being addressed, but the doomsday-vibe I got from the video title in the first post are one of the reasons I didn't think much about reading this entire thread to begin with. I'm sure valid points were made, surely even some I agree with, but just take it down a notch or otherwise I'm gonna start to think that Harold Camping is among us.
 
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Thread Starter #75
One last thing; I already said I dont have anything against these problems being addressed, but the doomsday-vibe I got from the video title in the first post are one of the reasons I didn't think much about reading this entire thread to begin with. I'm sure valid points were made, surely even some I agree with, but just take it down a notch or otherwise I'm gonna start to think that Harold Camping is among us.
1577650767392.png
 

2bye

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#76
One thing that really caught me off guard while listening to the MKW Community Podcast, was when Justin mentioned the ideologies of the Wiimmfi staff. It's clear that most of the staff hate the competitive community (with the exception of Raptor, Zachruff, & KD). Some of them believe in Host Leniency; where if someone breaks a host's rules, the player will also be Wiimmfi ban. Justin, also mentioned the staff's lack of awareness when It comes to cases. Bean, never watched the video about Viktor; he only went off the general reactions of those who are always around him and off what Viktor said in his server. Bean also never watched Justin's video on the MKW community, but he did say "Why ban someone for pedophilia and not for bullying?" (Something around that, I'm in the middle of the woods rn so internet and battery is limited) To hear that from a big head in MKW is kind of shocking and provides some insight as to how the Wiimmfi Staff react to those situations. There was also some rediscovery of AtlasOmegaAlpha, also a Wiimmfi Mod, doing some bad things to a 14 year old girl (Him being 20 years old). Yet, Wiimm refuses to remove him, Daylon, and Stunky as wiimmfi mods for whatever reason. Most players don't have a strict defined ruleset to go by when playing on wiimmfi; however, there is one that's just not well known. Even with the existence of the ruleset, mods are still very active in acting on their own discretion. Which, also, undermines the validity of the staff team and their own rules. In addition to that, a good chunk of the higher ups aren't even active in the casual nor competitive community. Which directly causes them to make rash decisions when it comes to server updates/player bans, which in turn makes both communities upset.

Overall, this is disappointing behavior of the server that we all keep on playing on. It sucks that we virtually have no ability to hold them accountable to their actions and decisions.
 
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#77
One thing that really caught me off guard while listening to the MKW Community Podcast, was when Justin mentioned the ideologies of the Wiimmfi staff. It's clear that most of the staff hate the competitive community (with the exception of Raptor, Zachruff, & KD). Some of them believe in Host Leniency; where if someone breaks a host's rules, the player will also be Wiimmfi ban. Justin, also mentioned the staff's lack of awareness when It comes to cases. Bean, never watched the video about Viktor; he only went off the general reactions of those who are always around him and off what Viktor said in his server. Bean also never watched Justin's video on the MKW community, but he did say "Why ban someone for pedophilia and not for bullying?" (Something around that, I'm in the middle of the woods rn so internet and battery is limited) To hear that from a big head in MKW is kind of shocking and provides some insight as to how the Wiimmfi Staff react to those situations. There was also some rediscovery of AtlasOmegaAlpha, also a Wiimmfi Mod, doing some bad things to a 14 year old girl (Him being 20 years old). Yet, Wiimm refuses to remove him, Daylon, and Stunky as wiimmfi mods for whatever reason. Most players don't have a strict defined ruleset to go by when playing on wiimmfi; however, there is one that's just not well known. Even with the existence of the ruleset, mods are still very active in acting on their own discretion. Which, also, undermines the validity of the staff team and their own rules. In addition to that, a good chunk of the higher ups aren't even active in the casual nor competitive community. Which directly causes them to make rash decisions when it comes to server updates/player bans, which in turn makes both communities upset.

Overall, this is disappointing behavior of the server that we all keep on playing on. It sucks that we virtually have no ability to hold them accountable to their actions and decisions.
I am also a wiimmfi mod I just hide in the scenes. But I did watch the video. My first reaction when I heard someone was trolling in Mogi was "just let lounge deal with it, its not our problem" Until I saw the video and I was, pretty appalled. Not that he trolled her, or even that he made her cry. But the fact he made a video on it, put her own face in it to mock her, and to make fun of her. Thats where I personally think he crossed a line. All it did was remind me of years ago when people harassed liquid on her stream, when she's 60+ years old and these teenage boys were bullying an elderly woman and making her cry. No one should be, okay with that. Its okay because someone laughed? Don't think so.
As for certain wiimmfi mods, yes I agree some of them should not be on the team but unfortunately KD, myself and the other mods who do care about the community arent able to do anything about that and I apologize. Did wiimm actually refuse to remove them, or just doesnt care? I feel theres a chance he simply - doesnt care which isnt a good attitude approach as well but theres not much I can do about that. I was trying to get someone else as mod for years who is very active and has a positive attribute to the community (Isa - streamer) but was basically ignored with my request and only one who answered was KD. I just feel the higher ups dont really care as much as they should.
 
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#78
I'm not really a part of the community anymore, but as someone who was on both sides of the community (casual and competitive), of the many differences within the 2 sides of the community, there were 2 things we could agree on. Pedos are bad, and the Wiimmfi Staff team is complete and utter dog shit. There is zero consistency with Wiimmfi bans and many cases are not handled well (Viktor, Blaze, etc.)

Now I am not saying that what Viktor did was remotely acceptable. If you are going to troll somebody and then proceed to display malicious intent to said trolling (whether it is intended or not), you should be punished for it, period. Am I also saying his punishment was fair? Not really, because banning for a month over a "bullying a girl" scene is not really necessary. And don't even get me started with Daylon, Stunky, and the plethora of other mods that should be replaced.

I have a very good friend who was in the community (this was when I was still casual and still leading 4DR), up until he started playing Battle Mode on Wiimmfi. He would regularly report idiots for various things like hacking, trolling, etc. though in the community, he was a fairly controversial figure. So some of those same idiots (and some of the staff) would have a bias against him, and would ban him and his friends for stupid reasons, and then mark them under "trolling", when many of these mods have no idea how battle works. It eventually got to the point where he was permanently banned for the same bullshit "trolling" excuse, but there was absolutely no proof presented when asked for it. Completely unacceptable imo.

Part of the reason why I stopped playing and I'm not a part of the community is because of the community itself. There are very few solid community leaders, and the result is a community where we have 13-20+ year old whiny crybabies and their ziploc bags of goldfish getting butthurt over every little thing that happens to them in a childrens racing game. I'm willing to bet money that a majority of the people in the community aren't willing to grow up deep inside, because this is the only place you can get away with troll-like behaviour 24/7. I was one of those people, but I had since realized I needed to put the big boy pants on, focus on more important shit, and get the fuck out of this joke of a community, because unless something major happens that makes the community significantly better and more pleasant to be in, this community is one more scandal away from being shoved into a coffin and put 6 feet under.
 
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#79
I have a very good friend who was in the community (this was when I was still casual and still leading 4DR), up until he started playing Battle Mode on Wiimmfi. He would regularly report idiots for various things like hacking, trolling, etc. though in the community, he was a fairly controversial figure. So some of those same idiots (and some of the staff) would have a bias against him, and would ban him and his friends for stupid reasons, and then mark them under "trolling", when many of these mods have no idea how battle works. It eventually got to the point where he was permanently banned for the same bullshit "trolling" excuse, but there was absolutely no proof presented when asked for it. Completely unacceptable imo.
I'm curious on who the friend was as I am one of the mods that was brought in for the battle mode scene. Maybe inbox me as I'd like to know the situation better. Not sure if I was there or not.
 
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