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[S16] WL Division Format

Choose a Division Format for Season 16

  • Conference Format, Top 4 Advance to Playoffs (1st and 2nd from Each Conference)

  • Conference Format, Top 2 Advance to Playoffs (1st from Each Conference)

  • Original WCL Format, Top 2 Promoted and Bottom 2 Relegated (No Playoffs)

  • I Have My Own Format Idea (Previous WL Formats are Ineligible to Suggest)


Results are only viewable after voting.

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#1
Introduction

Hello everyone.

As the divisions slowly, but finally finish their last matches for the ongoing season, we thought we would attempt to introduce a new division format which we, the WL Council, had in mind for Season 16 (this happened to be a previously suggested idea in fact).

Obviously, given that this is publicised and addressed to the community, we do not have the intention of hard forcing this change. We have provided two other format options which you can read through in the "Other Format Choices" section of this post.

Before we get into depth about this though, here are the main reasons as to why we're currently considering this:

- Most likely hard to reach a general conclusion about this but Motivation plays a key role in this:
With the current format we have (8-team divisions with double elimination in the same division), which had been used in the past already, we attempted to take a step away from a format that consisted of a 10-weeks main season and top 3 of each division making it to playoffs.
The issue soon arose --> losing games early on, especially while one team might be on a good streaks in only 3 weeks, is a good killer of Motivation for teams to try and take the lead, but instead, feel less inclined to play matches, let alone play them seriously.

- Something that everyone knows too well; teams attempting to stay in divisions they have previously dominated which leads to them facing a good portion of the same opponents next season - the lack of diversity, to put it short.
Everyone experiences it during 'Preliminary Seedings', it is rarely ever the case that teams actually want to be moved up to compete against stronger teams.
Constantly being able to choose your opponents by presenting cases as to why your team may have been seeded too high should not happen as frequently as it does.

- This is just a hypothetical scenario but our new idea/proposal may be able to help us out a little when it comes to determining seedings as a whole but that will be something to discuss later on as we move on with this.


The Conference Format

Now, to explain the actual format, we'll use a mock of sorts below to illustrate things a little bit:

This will be our mock example for a season:


The new format will include:

- 2 conferences that consist of 4 teams each; both of them form a "division" consisting of 8 teams.
- You will play teams in your conference twice while you will play teams outside of your conference only once; this equals to a 10 weeks season.
- 1 match per week will be played -> this is mostly because of 1) how issues like DCs can cause severe delays 2) playing 2 matches in one week would make for a rather short-lived season etc.

A set of conferences would look something like this based on our above-mentioned example:


Note: the "numbers" (=seeds) were assigned in this example in a snake format

Given that this division format differs slightly from the other previous formats we've ran, we also prepared an example of what a schedule would look like assuming we stick with this.



Playoffs Scenario:
Just like previous seasons, we have decided to continue the tradition of including playoff matches. Playoffs for conferences will look like this:



Semi-Finals:
Series 1: 1st place from Conference A vs 2nd place from Conference B
Series 2: 1st place from Conference B vs 2nd place from Conference A

Finals:
Winner of Series 1 vs Winner of Series 2

3rd Place Match:
Loser of Series 1 vs Loser of Series 2

There will be reseeding for the Finals in terms of record in the regular 10 week season to determine the higher ranked team.

There will also be a choice in the poll for only top 2 advancing to playoffs.

Our reasoning for structuring playoffs this way is because of the season getting delayed as has happened already with the recent format. Single elimination will have less matches to play and less chances for the season to get delayed. It also keeps the season’s length shorter to finish by around the end of summer.

Playoff matches will be single elimination with sets being Best of 3 between both teams.

Other Format Choices

If this format is not desirable, there will be two other choices everyone can pick from:

1. Original WCL Format:

You guys are used to 6-team divisions with no playoffs already. What you are not used to yet is having guaranteed promotion and relegation depending on placement. This is how the WCL format worked in its entirety, and the promotion/relegation component has been missing from WL since the very beginning. The WCL format with this component was successful for over 20 seasons (12 of World Clan League - WCL and 8 of International League - IL).

Here is how the promotion/relegation system works:

At the end of the season if you...
Place 1st: You are promoted up to the next division for the following season​
Place 2nd: You are promoted up to the next division​
Place 3rd: You are neither promoted or relegated, you play in the same division for the following season​
Place 4th: Same as 3rd​
Place 5th: You are demoted down to the next division for the following season​
Place 6th: You are demoted down to the next division​

With this format, if it was not clear enough, there are no playoffs. The results after 10 weeks are final.

2. The last option of a format is if you have a format idea you want to bring to the table that has inter-division play in it, you can post it here (unless your format does not have playoffs as a part of it, then inter-division play is not required).

You must be able to present all facets of your format thoroughly to council. On the poll, if you would like this option, vote “I Have My Own Format Idea”.

All previous formats that the league has run will not be returning and do not qualify as choices.

A Few Last Things

A few more important things to mention is that we will be most likely sticking to the previous season in terms of how Standings will be done regardless of which format is chosen - Bonus Points will not be returning and if we do re-implement them, an announcement will surely be made so keep an eye out for those.

As it is the case with Bonus Points, Transfers will also remain the same way as they are as of now. This means that you will need to get your players transfered into your team before we jump into the next season. Should we happen to perform changes on the transfer window, we will yet again notify you so rest assured - it is recommended to take the worst scenario into account to prevent any in-team issues.

Lastly, another thread will be made regarding the CT format for this season, so stay tuned for that.
 
Last edited:

Sane

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#2
Seems like 6 team division without playoffs can kill motivation easily if a team pulls away in first.

Since the WL server for discussion is either locked for most or just spammed I'll post my other thoughts here too. I really think the season needs to start at the latest by early June and I am pretty confident that this is a strong opinion held elsewhere. Realistically, the season is 12 weeks including playoffs which is going to end up being about 3 months as usual. Every time a season finishes when school starts or exams shit really hits the fan... I've played seasons where it starts at the end of summer, scheduling just falls apart and people lose motivation because they have to move back to school or there are other events that make it close to impossible to finish (not having internet at school, not being able to take stuff to school, etc). Now the counter argument is something along the lines of: "then dont sign up lol" or "find a way to play dawg" but in reality people are still going to sign up (and this will result in drops/delaying, a major problem seen in past seaons) OR if they really know they can't then the league will probably lose teams/interest.

tl;dr start it soon so it doesn't implode at the end
(i put my essay pants on for this so please consider)
 
Last edited:

xCob

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#4
Would do conference, and add an IL Cup with only 1 bracket with every team from every division in it. 1 match per week or 2 week.
 
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~Maidvelia❤~

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#5
Would do conference, and add an IL Cup with only 1 bracket with every team from every division in it. 1 match per week or 2 week.
WL Cup will be an option to vote for on an upcoming form I'm posting in WL server.

And it's planned to be within the next 2 years but we can probably get it out sooner depending on demand for it.
 
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#6
Why not just go back to 6 team divisions, top 3 Playoffs?
Format survived so Long, why is it not considered to move back?

Its hard to find 8 teams on same skill level and 6 Team Divisions with 3 in playoffs helped to motivate many teams to still play far into the season.
 
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~Maidvelia❤~

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#8
Why not just go back to 6 team divisions, top 3 Playoffs?
Format survived so Long, why is it not considered to move back?

Its hard to find 8 teams on same skill level and 6 Team Divisions with 3 in playoffs helped to motivate many teams to still play far into the season.
Inter-division play is required to have a sensible playoff.

Soccer's World Cup is only the exception to the rule, and last I checked their bracket isn't as small as 3 teams (it's 16, so the bracket isn't a joke).
 
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#9
For WCL format, if a team receives new players and loses players, will it have an effect on what div they are put in or could Xander go to Turtle Team for example and they would still be D4.
 
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#10
For WCL format, if a team receives new players and loses players, will it have an effect on what div they are put in or could Xander go to Turtle Team for example and they would still be D4.
Scenario --> Result
We lost players and got 1st last season --> still promoted (keep your team intact or don't play the next season, you earned the next division up)
We gained better players and got 1st last season --> promoted even higher if necessary
We gained/lost players and got a middle spot --> same division (keep your team intact or don't play the next season, you earned the same division)
We gained better players and got 6th last season --> seeded appropriately (either demoted or same division)
We lost players and got 6th last season --> demoted to only 1 division below (unless it's a major roster change)

The idea here is to discourage settling for mediocrity and also encourage better team management.

EDIT: Fixed some typos.
 
Last edited:
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~Maidvelia❤~

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#12
ye this won't really work in a league that has no money or professionist players involved
Or, leaders need to learn proper team management for what is supposed to be the main stage of the game. There are a few model leaders in the community that people need to learn from (Ballin and Sabby come to mind).

If you don't want placement to directly determine division (which is the only way to have no playoffs work because then you have something else to shoot for other than 1st), I suggest the conference format.
 
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#13
I personally think the most appealing idea would be something along the lines of 8 team divisions (meeting the requirement of higher teams needing to play lower teams to decrease the skill gap ect) Top 3 teams make playoffs where a bo3 happens between seeds 2 and 3, winner bo3 first seed like old playoff format. Implementing a bit of original WCL rank up, whomever finishes first seed in the division ranks up and whichever team wins finals, if its one in the same, whichever other team played in finals also ranks up. Bottom two derank. I love this idea because its always the same teams in the same divisions, this way theres guarantees in the community. A lot of people get frustrated over inconsistencies, this way something is almost absolute. I think this idea in general can be expanded upon to, to make it ideal for everyone, as I am only one person in the community. (I also personally believe bonus point should become a thing again as well as switching the points back to 3 0 and 1 respectively)

I dont agree with the original WCL format because of no playoffs. I believe, like sane and many others, that 6 teams no playoffs will just kill motivation if a team breaks away. I also think playoffs are a benefit for things like casting as the higher intensity and risk of the match will always attract more viewers no matter the medium. It's also a nice thing to see how teams preform under pressure, ect, and gives certain teams a chance to redeem themselves if they believe they got screwed over in the regular season.

I personally am also not a fan of conferences to begin with, I just dont think they fit the game. I cant really justify that in words and that alone is a pretty weak argument; however, EL is already running a conference style format so theres already a league doing that. Again, nothing wrong with two leagues doing the same format, I just feel variety would be better since im with the opinion that conferences dont fit the game. I really do wish I could formulate my thoughts into words.
 
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#14
@Alex.
Inter-division play is required to have a sensible playoff.

Soccer's World Cup is only the exception to the rule, and last I checked their bracket isn't as small as 3 teams (it's 16, so the bracket isn't a joke).
2. The last option of a format is if you have a format idea you want to bring to the table that has inter-division play in it, you can post it here (unless your format does not have playoffs as a part of it, then inter-division play is not required).

You must be able to present all facets of your format thoroughly to council. On the poll, if you would like this option, vote “I Have My Own Format Idea”.
To clarify what inter-division play means:
Inter-division play means playing between two groups, not all in the same group.
The 6-team format with Bo3 for example was not inter-division play.
And here's the Webster Definition.

If you have another format idea than conferences that has inter-division play, go for it. We went with conferences because it has the smallest skill gap (in the context of 2 conferences per division). Something like 4 conferences/groups per division would be a lot more uneven.

Without inter-division play, the only other option is no playoffs (because I doubt you guys want a division of like 24 teams with 12 advancing just to have a sensible playoff).
 
Last edited:
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#15
Not exactly sure why conferencss are REQUIRED to have playoffs. Just call If seasons final if you want then but as I said they've worked fine in the past and simply because its very hard to find 8 teams on about Same level i'd go back to the format.
 
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~Maidvelia❤~

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#16
Conferences aren't required, but interdivisional play is required for smaller team amounts in a sensible playoff.

Not having interdivisional play is the exception, not the rule. The exception to the rule also has a bracket much larger than 3 teams (FIFA World Cup has 16 teams).

Interdivisional play can work with 6 teams if it comes down to it (2 conferences of 3) but we decided that it would be pretty lackluster to run and should only be used when a division does not have 8.

If we want no interdivisional play then sure we can go with a couple really large divisions, but as I said: I don't think people are ready for divisions of like 16/24 teams to get a 8/12 team bracket in order for non-interdivisional play to qualify as a sensible playoff. 3 teams does not cut it, it's arguably a joke. 4 teams in the bracket works for this because they are from 2 different groups (conferences A and B).
 
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#17
Introduction

Hello everyone.

As the divisions slowly, but finally finish their last matches for the ongoing season, we thought we would attempt to introduce a new division format which we, the WL Council, had in mind for Season 16 (this happened to be a previously suggested idea in fact).

Obviously, given that this is publicised and addressed to the community, we do not have the intention of hard forcing this change. We have provided two other format options which you can read through in the "Other Format Choices" section of this post.

Before we get into depth about this though, here are the main reasons as to why we're currently considering this:

- Most likely hard to reach a general conclusion about this but Motivation plays a key role in this:
With the current format we have (8-team divisions with double elimination in the same division), which had been used in the past already, we attempted to take a step away from a format that consisted of a 10-weeks main season and top 3 of each division making it to playoffs.
The issue soon arose --> losing games early on, especially while one team might be on a good streaks in only 3 weeks, is a good killer of Motivation for teams to try and take the lead, but instead, feel less inclined to play matches, let alone play them seriously.

- Something that everyone knows too well; teams attempting to stay in divisions they have previously dominated which leads to them facing a good portion of the same opponents next season - the lack of diversity, to put it short.
Everyone experiences it during 'Preliminary Seedings', it is rarely ever the case that teams actually want to be moved up to compete against stronger teams.
Constantly being able to choose your opponents by presenting cases as to why your team may have been seeded too high should not happen as frequently as it does.

- This is just a hypothetical scenario but our new idea/proposal may be able to help us out a little when it comes to determining seedings as a whole but that will be something to discuss later on as we move on with this.


The Conference Format

Now, to explain the actual format, we'll use a mock of sorts below to illustrate things a little bit:

This will be our mock example for a season:


The new format will include:

- 2 conferences that consist of 4 teams each; both of them form a "division" consisting of 8 teams.
- You will play teams in your conference twice while you will play teams outside of your conference only once; this equals to a 10 weeks season.
- 1 match per week will be played -> this is mostly because of 1) how issues like DCs can cause severe delays 2) playing 2 matches in one week would make for a rather short-lived season etc.

A set of conferences would look something like this based on our above-mentioned example:


Note: the "numbers" (=seeds) were assigned in this example in a snake format

Given that this division format differs slightly from the other previous formats we've ran, we also prepared an example of what a schedule would look like assuming we stick with this.



Playoffs Scenario:
Just like previous seasons, we have decided to continue the tradition of including playoff matches. Playoffs for conferences will look like this:



Semi-Finals:
Series 1: 1st place from Conference A vs 2nd place from Conference B
Series 2: 1st place from Conference B vs 2nd place from Conference A

Finals:
Winner of Series 1 vs Winner of Series 2

3rd Place Match:
Loser of Series 1 vs Loser of Series 2

There will be reseeding for the Finals in terms of record in the regular 10 week season to determine the higher ranked team.

There will also be a choice in the poll for only top 2 advancing to playoffs.

Our reasoning for structuring playoffs this way is because of the season getting delayed as has happened already with the recent format. Single elimination will have less matches to play and less chances for the season to get delayed. It also keeps the season’s length shorter to finish by around the end of summer.

Playoff matches will be single elimination with sets being Best of 3 between both teams.

Other Format Choices

If this format is not desirable, there will be two other choices everyone can pick from:

1. Original WCL Format:

You guys are used to 6-team divisions with no playoffs already. What you are not used to yet is having guaranteed promotion and relegation depending on placement. This is how the WCL format worked in its entirety, and the promotion/relegation component has been missing from WL since the very beginning. The WCL format with this component was successful for over 20 seasons (12 of World Clan League - WCL and 8 of International League - IL).

Here is how the promotion/relegation system works:

At the end of the season if you...
Place 1st: You are promoted up to the next division for the following season​
Place 2nd: You are promoted up to the next division​
Place 3rd: You are neither promoted or relegated, you play in the same division for the following season​
Place 4th: Same as 3rd​
Place 5th: You are demoted down to the next division for the following season​
Place 6th: You are demoted down to the next division​

With this format, if it was not clear enough, there are no playoffs. The results after 10 weeks are final.

2. The last option of a format is if you have a format idea you want to bring to the table that has inter-division play in it, you can post it here (unless your format does not have playoffs as a part of it, then inter-division play is not required).

You must be able to present all facets of your format thoroughly to council. On the poll, if you would like this option, vote “I Have My Own Format Idea”.

All previous formats that the league has run will not be returning and do not qualify as choices.

A Few Last Things

A few more important things to mention is that we will be most likely sticking to the previous season in terms of how Standings will be done regardless of which format is chosen - Bonus Points will not be returning and if we do re-implement them, an announcement will surely be made so keep an eye out for those.

As it is the case with Bonus Points, Transfers will also remain the same way as they are as of now. This means that you will need to get your players transfered into your team before we jump into the next season. Should we happen to perform changes on the transfer window, we will yet again notify you so rest assured - it is recommended to take the worst scenario into account to prevent any in-team issues.

Lastly, another thread will be made regarding the CT format for this season, so stay tuned for that.
Do we still have time to sign up for CTWL?
 
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#18
Need to have off season tournies like double elimination instead of el which will pretty much be the same. Having to wait a few months for a season means have less of same teams around all get messy with seedlings potentially.
 

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#19
Need to have off season tournies like double elimination instead of el which will pretty much be the same. Having to wait a few months for a season means have less of same teams around all get messy with seedlings potentially.
It isn't upto WL if EL stays or not, as of right now, it's going nowhere since it's already shown how improvements can be made comparing it to EL S1 and S2. Having two leagues give different formats is pretty refreshing to see as well especially on the CT side of the game. We'll stick to what the community mainly wants and WL will do it more "competitively" with the help from the community as well of course.
 
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